Umbra Deploy badge suggestions
Jenysis
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This upcoming Umbra challenge will be the third challenge with a tier that is faction colored. Please change this because the badge is not faction specific and discourteous to the other faction. Blue and green represent the two fiercely competitive factions that have intensely battled for the last 7 years, so naturally agents don't want to be stuck with the opposing faction's color on their profile. Also, the top tier badge appears to be an Xfac badge, but the badge outline is blue/teal and would need to be changed to blue/green. Below are the current badge art and some of my general suggestions. In the grand scheme of things, this might seem like a minor issue, but faction colors are very meaningful in Ingress. @NianticBrian @RedSoloCup
Current badge tiers.
Comments
Great suggestions! I prefer suggestion number 1.
I agree, facton colors on global event badges is so wrong.... I liked the cassandra badge color.... or exo5....
Each nemesis agent has its own color. Next year we will get green and yellow badges and the there's gonna be crybabies from the Resistance too.
You guys can get just the bronze if it matters so much.
I am getting at most bronze...or maybe even no badge for this event. I might just destroy stuff.
That still doesn't explain the need to have a faction colored tier. This is why I wrote in generalities because I know the Res would be upset to have an unnecessarily green colored badge they didn't choose. Requesting that designs be mindful of the game dynamics seems a reasonable request.
Here’s a suggestion...
Don’t earn one if you don’t want it. If color is so important to you, then act that way. Pretty sure I have XFAC banners on my mission badges... You know Green and Blue...
So let’s just outlaw all green and blue to include Missions shall we?
How far is to far?
or they just stick to the old global colors like the cassandra or exo5.. nobody complained about those since they didnt have faction colors on them...
What about 3 metal ranks, and them a additional colored medal?
I sincerely think that all those "challenges" aren't challenging at all. All super easy, barely an inconvenient. So more medals ranks (maybe even five like standard medals) would increase the ranking and help to reach the global goal.
Most players will just put a effort to achieve the maximum rank and stop. By having a 4th rank, it will be harder to get, to the point that only hardcore player will get it. And if it comes with a weird color scheme, you can just not put effort. I get this one without even trying, just deploy on my routine routes.
I'de love to have extra ranks for the challenges as well as being able to earn the recursion wings if a manage to double the goal.
The 13 chapters and NEMESIS medals are meant to display a spectrum of colors that represent each character or archetype, shown here:
The artwork for 2019 and Q1 2020 medals was completed earlier this year. I hear you about the faction colors, but small team, lots of open tasks, and I'm prioritizing new work. Going forward, we've taken this feedback into account and will be more mindful about what colors we use for the next series following NEMESIS.
wrt difficulty, I have a different opinion on how we should be using global challenges to encourage long-term gameplay than I've seen in some of our previous events. I too like a challenge, but I don't feel every event needs to set a target of a small percentage success rate. I feel like helping more people stretch and earn a gold medal doesn't hurt those who felt it was super easy. But if I've been stuck at Level 10 and have been medal-locked for some time, these kinds of events might keep me in the game longer and feel more invested in the game. The highest tier global challenge medal is the equivalent of gold, not onyx, and we can tune each event so that some are more or less difficult than others.
Lastly, I dislike negative reinforcement or punishments for failure in global challenges, so I designed the outcome where success means the 3X AP for final or eighth resonator slot deploys continues through First Saturday, and failing to defeat the Umbra challenge means the temporary bonuses end. For Jan, I like the idea of setting global stretch goals for additional rewards for those who want to go above and beyond.
@NianticBrian i wasn't actually complaining about the difficult, just suggesting more challenges (and rewards, as medals). Loved the idead of stretching goals over global achievement. I've been in a few Kickstarter and know that this strategic works well.
For example, in the current challenge I'm at 1540 points, and probably won't go much over further that since it's gonna be a busy weekend. But there's players in my city who went over 6500, and going further. They're doing it for their own personal reasons/goals. I believe a extra rank for those who reach like 2x or 3x the goal would be nice. What if one of the stretch goals were unlock platinum medal of the challenge? I would run for it, certainly!
I agree having stretch goals would be a nice addition, especially as someone who has doubled over on the gold badge, but in terms of balance it would be a bit too easy to have the opportunity to earn a platinum or even onyx badge in just a couple days.
In addition it's pretty nice to be able to just earn the top tier and not have to worry about it over the Holliday's.
A nice middle ground would be the ability to recurse on the gold badge. Hardcores can grind as much as they want to earn the badge multiple times, Casuals can relax after getting their gold, and Niantic doesn't have to worry about the balance issues that come with giving out plat and onyx badges
Should have platinum
Medal-locks are not really much of a thing these days. People have just read too much forums.
Back in the day there just wasn't options for different kind badges. I was level 11 with 24 million AP. That was real medal-lock. And you couldn't reach L16 without Guardian badge (or play about 1 year longer to make one of those old badges onyx).
I agree with you, @NianticBrian and @Jenysis!😘
Because I still got Level 15 and all medals must be outnumbered for a long time ago!
And now, I was so close to my final level as "Level 16" and I saw that "Recurse button" as my very first Simulacrum medals, which is signs say "Reset" button is for my AP points Only, not for all of my medals anymore!
Because this time, the future has been changed for a new decades and so, are you!
And another thing, in the Intel map, I have a future about the historical transformation of EPCOT with the annual passholder employee preview in Orlando!
As a whole new portals for Intel Map, "Future World" and "World Showcase" will become the four new World neighborhoods as "World Celebration", "World Discovery", "World Nature" and "World Showcase"!
And so, I will always believed in you all, looking for you all and we need to talk about the future of Ingress!!
I will destroy every green portals in every world area on my own! But then, I can't abandon on you all and I know you all be okay!
But, then, I need you all to know who I am and my accounts is just fine and I'm fine and I'm worrying about you all!
So, we love you all and so, now is the time to attack the green ones in Tampa, Orlando, New York, New Orleans, Miami, the Beach, New Jersey, California, Caracas, the Amazon river, Niagara Falls and the other world area!
And my whole new journey begin the day that we won the Battle against the NEMESIS and the Enlightened, if we have to work together to save the portals!
And so, what I'm saying is, we're gonna win them all, the New Year resolution and the future as a new decades is almost upon us all!
And remember, it's our little secrets, Because this world arounds you is NOT what it seems!
Good luck, fellow Resistance agents!
I actually care much less about badge colors than I do badge design. This challenges badge was the ugliest in a series of ugly badges. I enjoyed the challenge, but did not want to not deploy until it was over to avoid having the badge. As far as having faction colors on the badges goes, I’d like to go the other way with it, and have the challenges be enl vs res; and the winner gets the badges in their faction colors, with 3-5 tiered shades of that color, or the copper-onyx backgrounds and the highlights being the victorious faction color.
A challenge or event that would be enl vs. Res that is really like to see would be a version of shards where each city gets a small shard that must be sent by whichever faction captures that shard to another towns shard, where they will combine and increase in size. The faction who has the biggest shards at the end of the event wins. This way even rural players get a piece of the action, and get to contribute.
another somewhat similar event would be kind of like a game of hot potato with shards, where the shards detonate at random or at the end of the event and grey every portal within 50sq km. Faction with the most successful passes wins.
I was a big fan of the tiered improvements that have occurred in other events. Pushing for more is a good incentive to keep going when those of us finish an easy badge in the first evening.
I'm also in agreement over the lack of negative effects. The Global Challenges should be a way to encourage involvement, not a forced effort requirement to avoid the stick. We don't play Ingress to avoid punishments...
@NianticBrian I may be in the minority, but I don't find the global challenges particularly engaging in their current form. I will usually knock the souvenir badge out and then kind ignore it beyond that. I am posting this not to whine, but to provide constructive feedback on making global challenges more engaging.
I think I feel that way because the goal is so big and an individual contribution so small that anything I do feels pretty meaningless. It took around 21k agents getting the gold badge this time, IIRC. It seems really hard to make each person feel like their work is valuable at that scale, and I am not sure how to change that. Maybe per-cell leaderboards? Pair that with a per-cell report of how much more the cell has done compared to an average of the previous four weeks? This would make the event competitive both within a cell and between cells.
Perhaps also make rewards individual? Bronze gets a small reward, silver a larger one, and gold larger still, but only if the global challenge is met as well. Maybe also provide a set of prize bundles for people who get the badge. I am thinking bronze could choose from a gear package like:
A: 5 each RMH/RHS
B: 5 each CS/RS
C: 25 each R8/X8
Double those for silver. For gold make them VR or quadruple the R/X. This list is off the cuff to provide an example only.
Also, provide a global progress bar in the app.
@MaxflowO2 It's fine to have faction colored badges when they make sense like for the Osiris victory badge, character badges, or Xfac mission stuff. As I pointed out in my examples, for event badges, it makes more sense to use non Faction colors or more obvious Xfac colors.
@NianticBrian Thanks for your response and understanding! I do appreciate having periodic events keep people engaged, just a little bit of bummer to keep seeing faction colored badges. Btw, hopefully there will be an Mu challenge at some point. In terms of the rainbow aliens, most of the Ingressors I know and myself don't really follow the storyline. Personally, I don't care for the media and actors, but I did enjoy the comic book, and would be into reading more about the lore in comic form, in fact that might be a more effective way of communicating the storyline.
You know, color don’t bug me. But for the new ideas.
We already got Hacks, Glyph Hacks, and Resonators Deployed, all unique. Could expect fielding 1 point per field, linking, modding, km challenge, neutralize, unique portal capture...
Thank you for posting about the colours. I know for many it was frustrating. Also agree that stretch goals are awesome; if you want the moon you have to reach for the stars. I think this mindset is awesome, and it does promote play and engagement in game.
However, I strongly disagree with the event badges being used to level in game. Badge locking is not really a thing anymore, and definitely has not been a level 10 issue since 2015, so I am frustrated that there seems to be an argument for even easier leveling than there is now. That is not what Ingress is about; that's what getting pogo players leveled to 12 is about.
Over the last year, your core players, your heavily committed and engaged players who have been around for 4,5,6,7 years, have left in droves, and it's because of actions like this (as opposed to retirement of Redacted). People love Ingress because of the challenge. Why are badges like black mind controller and connected so amazing? Because you have to work hard to obtain them. That is exactly what leveling badges should be about. It is an accomplishment to do so. It makes planning and effort and coordination and dedication. Badges like the current global event badges, are what are called "candy badges" in the playerworld, because they are handed out like candy. There isn't anything bad about badges like this; many like to add to their badge sets. But adding them in for leveling in a game that where badge locking is no longer a thing, is turning Ingress into Pogo Light, and begs the question: do you understand how your game is fundamentally played in communities across the world? Players love a nice shiny, but it has no value because you aren't having to work hard for it. Niantic needs to understand what drives Ingress, not Pogo, at the community level and why Ingress is unique, to understand that. Getting to Level 8 now is not even remotely a challenge; one hour with help or maybe two to four without. Even getting to Level 16 isn't a challenge given the ease of gear farming and number of portals these days.
Making the game trivial versus rewarding is detrimental to the game and your player communities. Ingress is not about people sitting around a campfire singing Kumbaya while trading stickers for their Lisa Frank Sticker album, and we don't want it to be. There is Pogo and now HPWU for that, and neither are challenginig games like Ingress. Please listen to your players on more than "we don't like this badge colour." Examples like @Hosette 's above are great examples of ideas that can increase the enjoyment and quality of these events.
Special Note, because I know at least one person will misinterpret this post: This is not an argument about what it takes the obtain the tier levels as I think those are well tuned for the badge tiers on a short term event, especially ones that are individual based versus team based. I agree those levels are good. It is specifically about using these events to give out leveling badges in a game that doesn't need more leveling bagdges.
@VanJeffery "badge locking" is still a thing, and looking at retention curves of when and where players on aggregate stop playing, as well as qualitative feedback of what people share on social media and surveys, it can definitely be frustrating to have the AP needed to level up and then feel stuck for weeks or months because they don't have the required number of gold medals. If I can help those players level up, not by giving them a free medal but by giving players more opportunities to earn medals, then my hypothesis is that that's better for Ingress overall if those players stay and keep playing longer than they would if they decided to stop playing at L9, L10, L11, etc.
Thousands of players join Ingress every day. How do we help them level up and keep them playing the game?
What makes Ingress special is the direct connection to people, places, and stories:
In other real world games, I feel like there's an emphasis on gameplay that happens in between locations; the locations themselves are a lower priority than what happens around them. But in Ingress, the portals themselves are what we fight to capture, and those surprise and delight moments of discovering an interesting portal on my screen then looking straight up to see that physical artwork, monument, or architecture — that blurs the line between what's online and offline in ways that augment reality, and truly place an additional layer of meaning on top of the real world.
That's what I feel drives Ingress, and that's what I feel makes Ingress truly unique.
How many access points I have, or which medals I've earned, that's a bonus.
Helping retain more players, not just the high-level ones, and working to grow the overall player base is a priority. Gatekeeping opportunities to earn medals or turning Ingress into more of a secret society is not.
That's what I thought too. The new "challenge" is easy and it seems like planned for PoGo players levelling up, it is a free gold badge to achieve in one day or less.
The medals that should be used to level up is the regular ones, but it's too hard for those new players base of Ingress Prime.
Lately, I don't feel the challenge of playing Ingress like the Exo5, Cassandra, or Aurora events, not to mention the ugliness of Nemesis Era medal design.
In addition, the amount of cheats has increased, players arriving at L10 stop and create new accounts to reach L10, and can easily get back without being banned, even denouncing with the print of the conversation in the comm that makes clear the wrong attitude of players sharing those accounts (changing GPS location to various countries, playing at dawn only).
@NianticBrian I would love to see that data. Being unable to level for a couple weeks though is not badgelocked so what threshold are you using for this conclusion? There is nothing wrong with having a game that requires planning and action and coordination to get to a level. Ingress is fundamentally different than Pokemon Go. So if the data is based on people not playing because it's not simple to level incomparison to another game, then I suppose moving it to Pokemon idealogy is what you have to do. But that's comparing apples and oranges. Compare Ingress to Ingress. Otherwise it is indeed reducing the quality of this game if you are reducing the nature of the game to simplicity. Ingress is complex and nuanced, and bringing in new players to see more than just making it to level 10 or 12 is your key to longevity, not by reducing the badges for leveling.
Exploration: I see the world from new and different perspectives, and discover new things about my neighborhood despite having lived here for 10 years
In other real world games, I feel like there's an emphasis on gameplay that happens in between locations; the locations themselves are a lower priority than what happens around them. But in Ingress, the portals themselves are what we fight to capture, and those surprise and delight moments of discovering an interesting portal on my screen then looking straight up to see that physical artwork, monument, or architecture — that blurs the line between what's online and offline in ways that augment reality, and truly place an additional layer of meaning on top of the real world.
I believe exploration is a great part of ingress. I agree 100% about the discovery and excitement about learning new things and learning about parts of the real world that one didn't know existed. I know I drive along and point out portals to people (even to my own family on a daily basis) because I love that there are pieces of beauty and history all around me that many have never seen. It is a wonderful thing about the portal database. But I would disgree on your characterisation of that being the emphasis. The part that happens in between is called community, and it's those people that keep the game moving forward. Gigas, for example, are less about the portals per se, than it is about the months of orga in preparation.
The core of the game, and why it's so special is a combination of the structure of Ingress gameplay (not the portals themselves) and the communities that play it. It's the game, and all it entails, that not only pulls people together, but keeps them active in communities. These people work together to do amazing things, often at great finanical expense and significant time investments. These include anomaly coordination, strategy, fielding ops (small and giga), field art, starbursts, player created competitive events, IFS, counterintelligence, anti fielding coordination, decode, just to name a few. If you compare to Pokemon go, Ingress is definitely difficult to level. But do you want people playing for months, or do you want them playing for years?. Ingress is not Pokemon Go, so to characterise it as gatekeeping because it's harder feels disingenuous. If the solution is to reduce the quality of Ingress to satiate the instant gratification needs of new players to retain them, we do a disservice given how many people have already stayed for 7 years. This otherwise reduces your players, which is counter to the purpose of retention.
I whole heartedly agree that putting out events to get people playing is key! I have said this for a very long time. Agents themselves have carried this creative burden for far too long. Small events, weekly goals, quests (team and individual) - did you know there are multiple structured weekly player-created challenges to encourage play? In addition, IFS has been an amazing success with the revamp and has reduced a lot of faction tension in many areas as people begin to see others as people instead of a faction or enemy. These are good and I support the positivity these introduce to players. Healthy competition is good for the game.
If I can help those players level up, not by giving them a free medal but by giving players more opportunities to earn medals, then my hypothesis is that that's better for Ingress overall if those players stay and keep playing longer than they would if they decided to stop playing at L9, L10, L11, etc.
Thousands of players join Ingress every day. How do we help them level up and keep them playing the game?
Same as we always have. Invite them to communities. Help them learn how to play. Guide them. But if you look at the people that have stayed for all these years, through thick and thin, you should already have your answer. And it isn't about making it simpler to level under the false guise of gatekeeping and secret societies. It's about creating a game that is rewarding to play, both in game and because of the people one shares those experiences with. That is what drives Ingress.
Thank you for working to prioritise parts of Ingress to make it sustainable and enjoyable. Let's also keep it competitive. It's a fundamental part of the game.
Thank you for putting your answer so eloquently. I couldn't have said it better myself.
@VanJeffery I feel like we lost the cheap leveling badges fight when the Innovator badge came out. We went from a few hundred A16s in the world, probably fewer than 500, to thousands. I agree with you in principle though.
Oh I agree. But event badges are not the same IMO as the introduction of new full game badges.
Colors are set. Just too bad that they won't give us dedicated agents the Onyx tier we keep requesting. Comon @NianticBrian you even mentioned elsewhere about stretch goals. We want #Onyx! Shouldn't be too hard to throw a nice black tint on the badger! 🖤
@NianticBrian I think you have completely missed the point. Those of us that still play ingress like it because it provides a challenge that pogo and hpwu dont have. Maybe you need to spend more time playing ingress and less time with pogo and hpwu as well as listening to the people that have been playing the game for more than a year.
@VanJeffery I don't feel that creating Global Challenge events that give more players opportunities to earn additional bronze, silver, and gold medals turns Ingress into Pokemon GO or Wizards Unite.
@hawklet00 if the point was @VanJeffery feels Ingress does not need more leveling badges, and that they feel using Global Challenge events to give out leveling badges isn't a good idea, then I don't think I missed their point. I just disagree with it. They said:
Special Note, because I know at least one person will misinterpret this post: This is not an argument about what it takes the obtain the tier levels as I think those are well tuned for the badge tiers on a short term event, especially ones that are individual based versus team based. I agree those levels are good. It is specifically about using these events to give out leveling badges in a game that doesn't need more leveling bagdges.
@NianticBrian regarding the data showing where players on aggregate stop playing.. it would be worth adding a couple of data points to that. How many of those "players" stop playing as soon as they reach L10 and just start submitting portals? And on a timeline, where do you see this trend climbing. I would put money on that being right around the time Niantic dropped the entry level criteria for submitting portals to L10.
If you're seeing the same for L12, that will correspond to OPR/Wayfarer access. We have seen a large number of new accounts starting, playing hard to L10/12 and stop playing as soon as those milestones are hit. After that, the only stat that increases on these accounts are Portals Discovered and Agreements. When we try to invite new players to the communities, more often than not the response is "I'm just going to level until 10 so I can submit pokestops".
Badge-lock really is no longer a thing with the glut of badges we have to work on. It is, at most, a short-lived obstacle. We have enough badges that players can work on to level. Adding the global event badges to that cheapens the effort.