Right? That's what I meant with weird things happening when burning the spoofers portal. A couple minutes after the portal has fallen, these "mystery-obvious" accounts show up and start bringing down key locations that are blocking them, and oh, surprise!! as soon as they are down they start throwing out links. I've seen cases where the "mystery-obvious" lvl 5-6 accounts get banned but the one that was at the couch portal waiting to throw some lines doesn't get any punishment and got the most benefit of those actions.
I wish there was a place where we could submit this evidence and we know for certain that they are being reviewd by a human being and not bots like Lambert and Remy.
Or maybe a place with a clear guide on how to report, what evidence to provide (or even if it works to write some text explaining the situation when they ask for the coordinates /time/time zone response) for it to get effectively reviewed and punished.
@NianticThia Back before you joined Niantic, the Trusted Reporter program was perceived as an effective method of combatting spoofers. During the conclusion of that program, there was mention that CORE Supporters would have elements of Fast Track.
So questions I have are:
Is there any discussion of bringing back some player involved spoofing assessment program? Not necessarily TRs, but some method of reviewing issues, and/or discussing why players think specific cases are spoofing, in order for developers to better develop detection that functions off similar intuitive leaps, but with more valid data.
Are there any future plans for visible representation for CORE supporters tickets?
Will Niantic consider what many other games have done in recent years, changing tack from "We can't tell you the outcome" to "We are telling you the outcome so that you recognize we have taken steps, or chosen not to"?
You know why people post spoofing reports to forum? Because this does work. You can tell us that it doesn't, but I saw at the very least half a dozen occasions when people wrote here and then spoofers "magically" got banned that same day.
And while addressing support does not work, and posts on forum do, people will post on forum. Because people want to resolve issues and not bang against chat bots.
This thread link below clearly outlines a flaw in Nia's activity tracker for beacon ornaments. Hopefully they will address this issue for March event & beyond
I certainly wish it was different, but I sincerely hope (like many here) nonetheless that Niantic improves its anti-cheat system.
Currently I have 2 local accounts going around various parts of the world, and I have spoken with several agents of the communities they have passed through (All saying that it has become annoying to see how they make fields and destroy things in your face and not see anyone in real life) and yet this has not helped much when making a report, the accounts are still free.
I feel that Niantic should have a system of identifying (logging) where an account has been, i.e. it's ok that it's not immediately detected automatically by the amount of daily movement, but if there is a report, with a good basis in the same account that has history and with people in several cities on different continents in agreement that the only thing these spoofers do is damage the fun game Ingress players have, the least I would expect is a penalty (for not asking for an immediate ban )
PDTA: In case Niantic decides to take a new look, the cases I am referring to here are:
#16121155 (already banned by at least 2 accounts here before)
#16127601 (he lent the account to the above and played it in the same city as him to win the kureze medal)
As much as I hate spoofers, planning events for players instead of designing them to thwart spoofers is still a much better tack. Yes, spoofers may gain some advantage, but the point of the event is for players to enjoy themselves. Hiding the locations for fear of spoofers would damage the event more than the spoofers would.
Also, given that spoofers have effectively unlimited inventory and hack opportunity, I don't really see how they can do more than annoy real players in this instance.
Banning them is not the solution it's just trying to cover sunlight with the tip of a pin. What has to be done is punish the ones that benefit from it. Maybe not banning their accounts, and I've got the idea that they should punish the ones that use a spoofer somewhere and at the next second are throwing links, those have to be banned maybe not definitely but for a few days, that way you let them know that "hey, you're taking benefit from spoofers actions, and you're being punished because of that".
Banning spoofers account is the only way now. The team would like the way works well.
Punisging of spoofers owners is the next step. Now the support closes tickets without aby investagation. I spent more time for ceating ticket than support spend for closing them. For instance I made ~20 tickets yesteday. I sent an hour. All ticket were closed in the same minute. As ticket of all team the we created yesteday. I think about 50 tickets were closed in one minute.
Punishing the operator would definitely be better. But for the last two months EVERY enl BAF in both two cells of Moscow is being attacked and heavily crossed by spoofers, so kind of hard to find the particular person who benefits. I am not gong to blame the whole faction, it's not correct. Spoofers don't have faction, they are just pathetic losers and I prefer to think they are doing it on their own and are being just as despised by other faction. Because the whole game starts to stink if you think otherwise.
1) - @Mendeleiev17 is not the only person unhappy with the staff on the back end dealing with spoofing and multi accounting. I think I have called for the same thing a number of times. It's not like this is a new issue that hasn't been going on for years and years with very little action. If repeated ad nauseum complaints and "we're listening to you" comments go un-actioned, then perhaps the problem lies within Niantic?
When Niantic staff say "We're listening" nobody really believes you any more. Only solid actions by Niantic can turn that around that perception. (Look at the Lag issue - it's worst I've ever experienced outside an anomaly today and still no real feedback).
2) The TR program - Was pretty good, but it mostly dealt with large action spoofing and did not solve the issue.
3) The ability to restore links over blockers - appreciated and appears to have reduced some regional area high level spoofing.
4) Without some Vanguard actions, most people would have quit by now - some of these people who volunteer their time are invaluable.
5) I fully realize that some anti cheat mechanisms have to remain behind closed doors to prevent cheats abusing possible loopholes.
That said- the silence on this is deafening. There have been many many suggestions put forward by players and we have received basically a bit **** zero back on them. Things like deep learning for instance. If I can glance at a player profile, portal and clock and pretty much know right away if it's a spoofer or not I'd certainly hope a machine could do better than me on this.
6) The reduction of spoofing comments to one thread with threats associated with posting elsewhere sure seems like damage control.
7) Multi Accounting. I remember Andrew Krug stating that he did not think it was a thing big enough to really worry about/impact the game.
This is just so, so wrong. We had 1 player banned, who was a notorious multi accounter. This single ban took YEARS of work to get actioned. Getting it done completely flipped game play in our cell from one faction to the other. This person maintained a farm for their team which consisted of almost 170 P8 portals. They would bump/farm/distribute with other accounts, mod etc, (yes others also bumped) but this main person was the driver behind it. I spoke to one of the opposition and they actually stated, "I think in retrospect our team would not have won a single anomaly here without their help."
Even low level multi accounting - I have a CBD local, uses one other account to mod/bump/farm their couch portal. Every few days they come in **** up and level parts of the CBD. If we go smash their farm, its bumped and back to how it was as soon as they get home. We watch caps getting dropped and mods. Reporting it just seems to be a waste of time. (All tickets closed, no action).
Consider adding more regional TR type people. If I see a person actioning something on a portal, then another name shows up on it I recognize as not a normal player, a TR type report on this should result in at least an auto warning for the offending person. Players who play every day, know all players in their city/region and intel watch could be leveraged by Niantic. (OK I have no life). This would mean you would have 100's of TRs. Threaten these TRs with account suspension etc if they get malicious/whatever.
8) Actions on cheating.
So, we report, ticket is closed. No comment on any action done is passed onto the reporter. I see the reasoning behind this, but it's not overly helpful. We can tell if player is banned. We cannot tell if player was warned. Do we report again? How many times? Do Niantic track how many times a player has been reported? Do players get ban for being found to be multi accounting or is it 3 strikes? Does a positive spoof result always result in a perma ban ? Some consistency and explanation of actions taken would be really helpful, even if it's generic like "A positive spoof report always results in a permanent ban". Niantic can track gear transfers - do repeated gear transfers AND a multi account report raise prospect of a ban? Or do they just get a warning??
If it takes three strikes to ban a multi accounter and not all reports result in a strike exactly how many reports does it take? A lot no doubt! People just give up if they receive no feedback on if the report worked or not. Or worse - their frustration escalates leading to real world confrontation ranging from verbal abuse, tailing peoples cars all the way up to physical violence.
Maybe - Give a reporter an internal rating at Niantic. Reports which result in a positive cheat result result in a higher rating. Bad reports lower the rating. On the cheat report form, perhaps put a scale "How positive are you this person is cheating 1-3" (I'm not always 100% certain when I report, but often give it a go anyway when I suspect they are). Players with a really good rating on reports and confidence, get more weight to their reports.
9) Wintrading.
Please clarify this once and for all in a more or less final fashion, it's been vague forever.
10) Lastly - Communication.
As stated by a few others above - the common theme is lack of communication from Niantic, please trust us enough to talk to us more about what you are doing. Most of the time we feel we are talking to a brick wall. I've offered, nay begged to be able to be involved in giving feedback back to Niantic on numerous occasions and nothing back. Also I'm sorry Niantic staff if I seem like an angry nasty individual, but it's from years of banging my head against the wall. I'm really not and run most local social events and act as a moderator often between factions.
Nobody's anwsering? Ok. Not surprising. Players will find a way out. Either they move out, or they find their own ways to compete with those spoofers. Guess what's the efficient and effective way of competing with spoofers, when no stakeholders are really caring about eliminating spoofing? Hehe.
It means regular 'naming and shaming' posts accusing specific people of misdeeds, creates an atmosphere of harassment, and has on multiple times, been used to hound an innocent Agent out of the game. Just because you think you know who's doing it, doesn't mean you can claim authority. That's Niantic's job, whether we like how they do it or not.
You are not the Ingress Police. If you did this to someone in the real world, after the Police dismissed a spurious allegation, you would be sued for libel or slander, depending how it was viewed.
Have you read the original post? It was suggested to be a hidden post with the name of an alleged spoofer and proofs only visible to moderators. Not a bad idea, actually, like in-game chat, but you would receive feedback on your proofs.
I wasn't replying to the original post. I was replying to the question as to why someone would get banned for harassment, in the post directly above mine. That response was replying to the OP
The original post is by @NianticThia coalescing all Spoofer related information into one place.
It was suggested to be a hidden post with the name of an alleged spoofer and proofs only visible to moderators.
This wasn't the "original post" of this thread, but how is this different from a Support ticket? I have no idea where in this thread the idea you're suggesting was presented (I have a number of people on block because of their previous bad behavior and I generally don't read every spoofer thread in detail because they're largely the same).
How is it different from the support ticket? The feedback-wise. Zero feedback on the proofs provided makes us think they are being dismissed uninvestigated.
How is it different from the support ticket? The feedback-wise. Zero feedback on the proofs provided makes us think they are being dismissed uninvestigated.
Thing is, the support tickets have the capability to have feedback. They can send you messages, and ask questions, and have you reply either in the site, or via email. If Niantic instituted a "moderator only" post, where you got no feedback aside from "Thanks for letting us know" etc, it'd be no different from the support tickets.
If they're not going to reply on the existing mechanism which already has the capability, why would a new mechanism change that?
TL;DR - The problem is not the platform or the format, but the way it's used.
Now we can see how XM Ambassadors are blatantly threatening that "someone would get banned for hara.ssment" here for no reason in this post and make off-topic criticisim ("You are not Ingress police"), by not quoting or replying but throwing "in the post directly above mine", just because players are asking questions about what specific discussion is allowed in this post and further clarification, without hara.ssing anybody or violating any rules. Good to see such "friendly" atmosphere, which helps us identify the exact situation I mentioned in other posts: "Many players who are supposed to at least lend a helping hand to anti-spoofing volunteers, have close to zero compassion for them".
I've expressed my doubts very clearly in the first comment, that is, if we volunteers proactively white out the codename of suspicious accounts, are we still able to make discussion like "_____(whited out by players themselves) reported in support ticket XXXXX is very likely a spoofer because of following reasons" as supplementary of the plain text report tickets to help NIA OPS reviewers to get better comprehension. When there was the Trusted Reporter Telegram bot we do this (elaborate some details for the reason of the report) every time we make fast track report and thus it's a common and normal behavior.
It's very strange that even reasonable questions like this would lead to personal attack from XM Ambassadors to normal players. Why? Not wanting us to stop spoofers at all?
99% of players who made comments in this post have a common sense that reports were replied with automatic canned response and probably not really reviewed. That's the reason for multiple posts and eventually this dedicated thread.
Any you are still saying, as always, "the support ticket have the capability to have feedback". Are we playing the same Ingress? Have you read replies by other players? Have you ever made any report that has substantial results and informative "feedback"?
I don't understand how could XM Ambassador choose on the first sight to despair anti-spoof volunteers by implying "give up. all your attempts and hopes are in vain", and hinder players from trying to establish a communication channel between players and NIA OPS.
blatantly threatening that "someone would get banned for hara.ssment"
No, you asked why someone would get banned for what has been described as harassment. If you take that as a 'threat' its because you know you're doing the wrong thing.
It wasn't a personal attack, it was literally the answer to your question. Why? Because Niantic considers that to be harassment as per their guidelines, and repeatedly asks people not to do it. If people don't listen to Niantic's requests, their only recourse is to temporarily or permanently remove access to their products. That's how their system works. It is what it is.
It's very strange that even reasonable questions like this would lead to personal attack from XM Ambassadors to normal players. Why? Not wanting us to stop spoofers at all?
Reasonable question got a reasonable answer. The strange part is that answering the question you asked is considered a 'personal attack'.
Any you are still saying, as always, "the support ticket have the capability to have feedback". Are we playing the same Ingress? Have you read replies by other players? Have you ever made any report that has substantial results and informative "feedback"?
The system has the capability. Niantic chooses to not use it. I have made many successful (and unsuccessful) reports over the last 10 years, and I know that the tool that Niantic uses has the capability, because it's a third party piece of software I'm familiar with in a different capacity.
The system has the capability. The fact that Niantic doesn't use it, indicates that a new platform with the same policies and processes, would not elicit more response, but simply the same level of response on a different platform.
If you think I'm defending Niantic, you're reading what you want to read, instead of what I'm writing.
I explained that posting names of players and accusing them of spoofing, is considered Harassment by Niantic. That's why warnings will be issued. That's their system, and the answer to the question you asked.
You're reading a lot more into what I'm writing, because you automatically assume that everything I say is a personal attack. Please don't.
I want Niantic to fix spoofing as much as the next person and in my own posts have directly asked Niantic why there isn't more player involvement, discussion and feedback. You're fighting with someone who's not fighting against you.
I've expressed my doubts very clearly in the first comment, that is, if we volunteers proactively white out the codename of suspicious accounts, are we still able to make discussion like "_____(whited out by players themselves) reported in support ticket XXXXX is very likely a spoofer because of following reasons" as supplementary of the plain text report tickets to help NIA OPS reviewers to get better comprehension. When there was the Trusted Reporter Telegram bot we do this (elaborate some details for the reason of the report) every time we make fast track report and thus it's a common and normal behavior.
This comment of I, was never modified. Everybody can see the original sentence "proactively hide the codename when publishing". I don't see any ambiguity here and I believe many players don't see it either otherwise I will receive a lot of disagree instantly, not likes and insights like now. Players who do the reports obviously know what I mean. Where is the hara.ssment in this case? Not to mention the I-dont-know-how ban for the never existing "hara.ssment".
Like I said, if you name players you can be banned for harassment. If you don't name players, it's up to Niantic to decide whether it's harassment or not. However, I would personally err on the side of caution because they asked all spoofer discussion to be held in this thread from now on.
Comments
It's kinda peculiar that this position is open for at least 6 months.
Product Manager - Anti-Cheat – Niantic Careers (nianticlabs.com)
Well, one of y'all is one step away from an opportunity knocking on your door. I guess!
When life's handing you lemons, make lemonade.
Hold my heatsinks, I'm going in
(I'm studying project management in grad school Niantic plz hire me)
Alright, incoming are some lemonades then.
Niantic: hmm people are so fed up with the anti cheat system, we have absolutely no idea why
The anti cheat system:
Niantic: Hmm guess we will never know
Right? That's what I meant with weird things happening when burning the spoofers portal. A couple minutes after the portal has fallen, these "mystery-obvious" accounts show up and start bringing down key locations that are blocking them, and oh, surprise!! as soon as they are down they start throwing out links. I've seen cases where the "mystery-obvious" lvl 5-6 accounts get banned but the one that was at the couch portal waiting to throw some lines doesn't get any punishment and got the most benefit of those actions.
I wish there was a place where we could submit this evidence and we know for certain that they are being reviewd by a human being and not bots like Lambert and Remy.
Or maybe a place with a clear guide on how to report, what evidence to provide (or even if it works to write some text explaining the situation when they ask for the coordinates /time/time zone response) for it to get effectively reviewed and punished.
@NianticThia Back before you joined Niantic, the Trusted Reporter program was perceived as an effective method of combatting spoofers. During the conclusion of that program, there was mention that CORE Supporters would have elements of Fast Track.
So questions I have are:
You know why people post spoofing reports to forum? Because this does work. You can tell us that it doesn't, but I saw at the very least half a dozen occasions when people wrote here and then spoofers "magically" got banned that same day.
And while addressing support does not work, and posts on forum do, people will post on forum. Because people want to resolve issues and not bang against chat bots.
This thread link below clearly outlines a flaw in Nia's activity tracker for beacon ornaments. Hopefully they will address this issue for March event & beyond
https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/18296/kureze-effect-p2-already-being-planned-by-cheaters
I certainly wish it was different, but I sincerely hope (like many here) nonetheless that Niantic improves its anti-cheat system.
Currently I have 2 local accounts going around various parts of the world, and I have spoken with several agents of the communities they have passed through (All saying that it has become annoying to see how they make fields and destroy things in your face and not see anyone in real life) and yet this has not helped much when making a report, the accounts are still free.
I feel that Niantic should have a system of identifying (logging) where an account has been, i.e. it's ok that it's not immediately detected automatically by the amount of daily movement, but if there is a report, with a good basis in the same account that has history and with people in several cities on different continents in agreement that the only thing these spoofers do is damage the fun game Ingress players have, the least I would expect is a penalty (for not asking for an immediate ban )
PDTA: In case Niantic decides to take a new look, the cases I am referring to here are:
#16121155 (already banned by at least 2 accounts here before)
#16127601 (he lent the account to the above and played it in the same city as him to win the kureze medal)
As much as I hate spoofers, planning events for players instead of designing them to thwart spoofers is still a much better tack. Yes, spoofers may gain some advantage, but the point of the event is for players to enjoy themselves. Hiding the locations for fear of spoofers would damage the event more than the spoofers would.
Also, given that spoofers have effectively unlimited inventory and hack opportunity, I don't really see how they can do more than annoy real players in this instance.
@NianticThia 16127410 16127420 16127438 16127464 for [AN_UNSPECIFIED_SPOOFER] are closed without investigation
16127488 16127489 16127482 for [ANOTHER_UNSPECIFIED_SPOOFER] are closed without investigation
that said, we do have a progress, a bunch of spoofers are banned. but not the most proliferous ones.
Banning them is not the solution it's just trying to cover sunlight with the tip of a pin. What has to be done is punish the ones that benefit from it. Maybe not banning their accounts, and I've got the idea that they should punish the ones that use a spoofer somewhere and at the next second are throwing links, those have to be banned maybe not definitely but for a few days, that way you let them know that "hey, you're taking benefit from spoofers actions, and you're being punished because of that".
Banning spoofers account is the only way now. The team would like the way works well.
Punisging of spoofers owners is the next step. Now the support closes tickets without aby investagation. I spent more time for ceating ticket than support spend for closing them. For instance I made ~20 tickets yesteday. I sent an hour. All ticket were closed in the same minute. As ticket of all team the we created yesteday. I think about 50 tickets were closed in one minute.
Punishing the operator would definitely be better. But for the last two months EVERY enl BAF in both two cells of Moscow is being attacked and heavily crossed by spoofers, so kind of hard to find the particular person who benefits. I am not gong to blame the whole faction, it's not correct. Spoofers don't have faction, they are just pathetic losers and I prefer to think they are doing it on their own and are being just as despised by other faction. Because the whole game starts to stink if you think otherwise.
Ok. Some points, without getting abusive.
1) - @Mendeleiev17 is not the only person unhappy with the staff on the back end dealing with spoofing and multi accounting. I think I have called for the same thing a number of times. It's not like this is a new issue that hasn't been going on for years and years with very little action. If repeated ad nauseum complaints and "we're listening to you" comments go un-actioned, then perhaps the problem lies within Niantic?
When Niantic staff say "We're listening" nobody really believes you any more. Only solid actions by Niantic can turn that around that perception. (Look at the Lag issue - it's worst I've ever experienced outside an anomaly today and still no real feedback).
2) The TR program - Was pretty good, but it mostly dealt with large action spoofing and did not solve the issue.
3) The ability to restore links over blockers - appreciated and appears to have reduced some regional area high level spoofing.
4) Without some Vanguard actions, most people would have quit by now - some of these people who volunteer their time are invaluable.
5) I fully realize that some anti cheat mechanisms have to remain behind closed doors to prevent cheats abusing possible loopholes.
That said- the silence on this is deafening. There have been many many suggestions put forward by players and we have received basically a bit **** zero back on them. Things like deep learning for instance. If I can glance at a player profile, portal and clock and pretty much know right away if it's a spoofer or not I'd certainly hope a machine could do better than me on this.
6) The reduction of spoofing comments to one thread with threats associated with posting elsewhere sure seems like damage control.
7) Multi Accounting. I remember Andrew Krug stating that he did not think it was a thing big enough to really worry about/impact the game.
This is just so, so wrong. We had 1 player banned, who was a notorious multi accounter. This single ban took YEARS of work to get actioned. Getting it done completely flipped game play in our cell from one faction to the other. This person maintained a farm for their team which consisted of almost 170 P8 portals. They would bump/farm/distribute with other accounts, mod etc, (yes others also bumped) but this main person was the driver behind it. I spoke to one of the opposition and they actually stated, "I think in retrospect our team would not have won a single anomaly here without their help."
Even low level multi accounting - I have a CBD local, uses one other account to mod/bump/farm their couch portal. Every few days they come in **** up and level parts of the CBD. If we go smash their farm, its bumped and back to how it was as soon as they get home. We watch caps getting dropped and mods. Reporting it just seems to be a waste of time. (All tickets closed, no action).
Consider adding more regional TR type people. If I see a person actioning something on a portal, then another name shows up on it I recognize as not a normal player, a TR type report on this should result in at least an auto warning for the offending person. Players who play every day, know all players in their city/region and intel watch could be leveraged by Niantic. (OK I have no life). This would mean you would have 100's of TRs. Threaten these TRs with account suspension etc if they get malicious/whatever.
8) Actions on cheating.
So, we report, ticket is closed. No comment on any action done is passed onto the reporter. I see the reasoning behind this, but it's not overly helpful. We can tell if player is banned. We cannot tell if player was warned. Do we report again? How many times? Do Niantic track how many times a player has been reported? Do players get ban for being found to be multi accounting or is it 3 strikes? Does a positive spoof result always result in a perma ban ? Some consistency and explanation of actions taken would be really helpful, even if it's generic like "A positive spoof report always results in a permanent ban". Niantic can track gear transfers - do repeated gear transfers AND a multi account report raise prospect of a ban? Or do they just get a warning??
If it takes three strikes to ban a multi accounter and not all reports result in a strike exactly how many reports does it take? A lot no doubt! People just give up if they receive no feedback on if the report worked or not. Or worse - their frustration escalates leading to real world confrontation ranging from verbal abuse, tailing peoples cars all the way up to physical violence.
Maybe - Give a reporter an internal rating at Niantic. Reports which result in a positive cheat result result in a higher rating. Bad reports lower the rating. On the cheat report form, perhaps put a scale "How positive are you this person is cheating 1-3" (I'm not always 100% certain when I report, but often give it a go anyway when I suspect they are). Players with a really good rating on reports and confidence, get more weight to their reports.
9) Wintrading.
Please clarify this once and for all in a more or less final fashion, it's been vague forever.
10) Lastly - Communication.
As stated by a few others above - the common theme is lack of communication from Niantic, please trust us enough to talk to us more about what you are doing. Most of the time we feel we are talking to a brick wall. I've offered, nay begged to be able to be involved in giving feedback back to Niantic on numerous occasions and nothing back. Also I'm sorry Niantic staff if I seem like an angry nasty individual, but it's from years of banging my head against the wall. I'm really not and run most local social events and act as a moderator often between factions.
Nobody's anwsering? Ok. Not surprising. Players will find a way out. Either they move out, or they find their own ways to compete with those spoofers. Guess what's the efficient and effective way of competing with spoofers, when no stakeholders are really caring about eliminating spoofing? Hehe.
It means regular 'naming and shaming' posts accusing specific people of misdeeds, creates an atmosphere of harassment, and has on multiple times, been used to hound an innocent Agent out of the game. Just because you think you know who's doing it, doesn't mean you can claim authority. That's Niantic's job, whether we like how they do it or not.
You are not the Ingress Police. If you did this to someone in the real world, after the Police dismissed a spurious allegation, you would be sued for libel or slander, depending how it was viewed.
Have you read the original post? It was suggested to be a hidden post with the name of an alleged spoofer and proofs only visible to moderators. Not a bad idea, actually, like in-game chat, but you would receive feedback on your proofs.
@UltraViolator :
Have you read the original post?
I wasn't replying to the original post. I was replying to the question as to why someone would get banned for harassment, in the post directly above mine. That response was replying to the OP
The original post is by @NianticThia coalescing all Spoofer related information into one place.
It was suggested to be a hidden post with the name of an alleged spoofer and proofs only visible to moderators.
This wasn't the "original post" of this thread, but how is this different from a Support ticket? I have no idea where in this thread the idea you're suggesting was presented (I have a number of people on block because of their previous bad behavior and I generally don't read every spoofer thread in detail because they're largely the same).
The original post on one of the zillion threads.
How is it different from the support ticket? The feedback-wise. Zero feedback on the proofs provided makes us think they are being dismissed uninvestigated.
@UltraViolator
How is it different from the support ticket? The feedback-wise. Zero feedback on the proofs provided makes us think they are being dismissed uninvestigated.
Thing is, the support tickets have the capability to have feedback. They can send you messages, and ask questions, and have you reply either in the site, or via email. If Niantic instituted a "moderator only" post, where you got no feedback aside from "Thanks for letting us know" etc, it'd be no different from the support tickets.
If they're not going to reply on the existing mechanism which already has the capability, why would a new mechanism change that?
TL;DR - The problem is not the platform or the format, but the way it's used.
Now we can see how XM Ambassadors are blatantly threatening that "someone would get banned for hara.ssment" here for no reason in this post and make off-topic criticisim ("You are not Ingress police"), by not quoting or replying but throwing "in the post directly above mine", just because players are asking questions about what specific discussion is allowed in this post and further clarification, without hara.ssing anybody or violating any rules. Good to see such "friendly" atmosphere, which helps us identify the exact situation I mentioned in other posts: "Many players who are supposed to at least lend a helping hand to anti-spoofing volunteers, have close to zero compassion for them".
I've expressed my doubts very clearly in the first comment, that is, if we volunteers proactively white out the codename of suspicious accounts, are we still able to make discussion like "_____(whited out by players themselves) reported in support ticket XXXXX is very likely a spoofer because of following reasons" as supplementary of the plain text report tickets to help NIA OPS reviewers to get better comprehension. When there was the Trusted Reporter Telegram bot we do this (elaborate some details for the reason of the report) every time we make fast track report and thus it's a common and normal behavior.
It's very strange that even reasonable questions like this would lead to personal attack from XM Ambassadors to normal players. Why? Not wanting us to stop spoofers at all?
99% of players who made comments in this post have a common sense that reports were replied with automatic canned response and probably not really reviewed. That's the reason for multiple posts and eventually this dedicated thread.
Any you are still saying, as always, "the support ticket have the capability to have feedback". Are we playing the same Ingress? Have you read replies by other players? Have you ever made any report that has substantial results and informative "feedback"?
I don't understand how could XM Ambassador choose on the first sight to despair anti-spoof volunteers by implying "give up. all your attempts and hopes are in vain", and hinder players from trying to establish a communication channel between players and NIA OPS.
@LuoboTiX
blatantly threatening that "someone would get banned for hara.ssment"
No, you asked why someone would get banned for what has been described as harassment. If you take that as a 'threat' its because you know you're doing the wrong thing.
It wasn't a personal attack, it was literally the answer to your question. Why? Because Niantic considers that to be harassment as per their guidelines, and repeatedly asks people not to do it. If people don't listen to Niantic's requests, their only recourse is to temporarily or permanently remove access to their products. That's how their system works. It is what it is.
It's very strange that even reasonable questions like this would lead to personal attack from XM Ambassadors to normal players. Why? Not wanting us to stop spoofers at all?
Reasonable question got a reasonable answer. The strange part is that answering the question you asked is considered a 'personal attack'.
@LuoboTiX
Any you are still saying, as always, "the support ticket have the capability to have feedback". Are we playing the same Ingress? Have you read replies by other players? Have you ever made any report that has substantial results and informative "feedback"?
The system has the capability. Niantic chooses to not use it. I have made many successful (and unsuccessful) reports over the last 10 years, and I know that the tool that Niantic uses has the capability, because it's a third party piece of software I'm familiar with in a different capacity.
The system has the capability. The fact that Niantic doesn't use it, indicates that a new platform with the same policies and processes, would not elicit more response, but simply the same level of response on a different platform.
If you think I'm defending Niantic, you're reading what you want to read, instead of what I'm writing.
I never asked in this thread "why someone would get banned for what has been described as harassment". Everyone can see it clearly.
Please provide the link to comment of this post by me for it. Otherwise you are making false statement to pose a criticism on me. Why?
I don't think criticizing other players by claiming that they said something, which actually never happened, is allowed in any community, is it?
I explained that posting names of players and accusing them of spoofing, is considered Harassment by Niantic. That's why warnings will be issued. That's their system, and the answer to the question you asked.
You're reading a lot more into what I'm writing, because you automatically assume that everything I say is a personal attack. Please don't.
I want Niantic to fix spoofing as much as the next person and in my own posts have directly asked Niantic why there isn't more player involvement, discussion and feedback. You're fighting with someone who's not fighting against you.
I've expressed my doubts very clearly in the first comment, that is, if we volunteers proactively white out the codename of suspicious accounts, are we still able to make discussion like "_____(whited out by players themselves) reported in support ticket XXXXX is very likely a spoofer because of following reasons" as supplementary of the plain text report tickets to help NIA OPS reviewers to get better comprehension. When there was the Trusted Reporter Telegram bot we do this (elaborate some details for the reason of the report) every time we make fast track report and thus it's a common and normal behavior.This comment of I, was never modified. Everybody can see the original sentence "proactively hide the codename when publishing". I don't see any ambiguity here and I believe many players don't see it either otherwise I will receive a lot of disagree instantly, not likes and insights like now. Players who do the reports obviously know what I mean. Where is the hara.ssment in this case? Not to mention the I-dont-know-how ban for the never existing "hara.ssment".
Like I said, if you name players you can be banned for harassment. If you don't name players, it's up to Niantic to decide whether it's harassment or not. However, I would personally err on the side of caution because they asked all spoofer discussion to be held in this thread from now on.