What is the issue with Mausoleums?
Tailpot
✭✭
They are for groups of people. They are typically done for notable members of the community.
Guidance of January 2020 Update.
Cemeteries or Graveyards
- Acceptable: Headstones, statues or memorials dedicated to a historical figure, someone who is significant to the local community, or groups of individuals. For example, a WWII Veteran memorial.
Can be easily confirmed in the submission that it is for a group and not just an individual?
They are also a unique structure that doesn't move.
@NianticCasey Can you let me know if this acceptable per your update in January 2020? Rejection email isn't helpful, as it doesn't even have anything to do with the actual submission! See the rejection reasons.
Your nomination is rejected due to the following reason(s):
The real-world location of the nomination appears to represent a generic store or restaurant, Nomination does not meet acceptance criteria.
How it can be confused for a generic store or restaurant is mind blowing!
Best Answer
-
AgentB0ss
✭✭✭✭✭
Mausoleums would follow the same exact logic as a Gravestone, if you can provide a good history for the notable individual it should be acceptable. Again they need to be notable and the description/submissions statement should be used to why they are notable enough to be a Waypoint.
As far as being a unique structure, its not that unique. Sometimes they can be very unique though and that could play into it. However, likely just rely on how notable of a person is buried in the mausoleum.
As far as the "Rejected" as a generic Business unfortunately this is fairly common issue that people just use that for any rejection. I truly would believe no one thought that was actually a generic business.
11
Answers
Mausoleums would follow the same exact logic as a Gravestone, if you can provide a good history for the notable individual it should be acceptable. Again they need to be notable and the description/submissions statement should be used to why they are notable enough to be a Waypoint.
As far as being a unique structure, its not that unique. Sometimes they can be very unique though and that could play into it. However, likely just rely on how notable of a person is buried in the mausoleum.
As far as the "Rejected" as a generic Business unfortunately this is fairly common issue that people just use that for any rejection. I truly would believe no one thought that was actually a generic business.
Someone totally abused reviewing on that one! Generic business isn't even the correct rejection. Reading the update, it does say for groups of people and typically mausoleums are groups of people and not just one person. They are typically massive structures that have no current history that can not be researched by anyone easily to confirm for the review as they are built way before computers. A structure that can be visible from satellite should be acceptable just like other structures that can be confirmed.
People on ingress forums need to back down a little on what they consider unique structures, as everything is based on local significance., Locally most people have gravestones and plaques, not Massive structures above ground that are built for specific groups of people. Are you saying the Egyptian Pyramids are not considered eligible submissions? They are similar structures. I would approve the Egyptian Pyramids and local mausoleums the same. As they are similar structures for similar uses. The architecture on these are unique to cemeteries that can be easily identifiable.
Thanks guys for your opinions. I will wait for a Niantic response.
I've personally submitted ONE gravestone for a "historically/culturally relevant" person. And let me tell you, it's not an easy thing to do.
The available space in the Description and Supplementary fields is, bluntly, too small. And waaaaaay too many reviewers wouldn't click on ANY links out of blind fear of being hacked, not even to a wikipedia page or to a google maps link. Or even those that did, the man in question wasn't nearly as internationally famous as Elvis.
So expect to require repeated submissions.
That is because people are under the impression there is only one guidance on cemetery items. When there is multiple things now with the January 2020 update. Significant community figure was clarified in January Update. It is clear they want "A Veteran memorial for WW2". Groups of people are also clarified as acceptable, which this falls under. If people sit and read the help criteria when reviewing like they should be, we wouldn't see an issue with submitting these types of submissions. We get 20 minutes to review, spend the couple minutes in help confirming if there is criteria instead of being wrong and rejecting valid things. We are not racing in a marathon. We are reviewing potential wayspots. No winners at the end of this race. This race is never ending any time soon.
Thanks for your response. I agree they were tough. But people also need to read updated criteria when reviewing things. Current reviews could have new criteria responses address in them. A lot of agents/players won't read anything in Help when reviewing. Some agents/players don't even realize you have 20 minutes and can go to help confirm if it is allowed, and go back and finish our reviews without any issues. Using bad rejections doesn't help players. If you are unsure on something, skip or vote unsure. Using generic business on a cemetery submissions is horrible and should be considered abuse by the reviewer. Being lazy in reviews is abuse and more of a problem than most people admit.
"Groups of people are also clarified as acceptable, which this falls under. "
Could you clarify where this is listed/mentioned?
100% agree people should be accurately using the rejections instead of just selecting one. I was saying earlier its likely being being lazy, doesn't make it right.
On the Wayfarer site help section under the Jan update.
Would be really helpful if they didn't stealth update the help section and put a notification on the Wayfarer front page to say an update has been added
He is saying that Groups of people in Cemeteries are acceptable. The criteria is saying if the gravestone/statue/memorial is significant to groups of people.
Hmmm, see what you say but can be read either way due to the way they have worded it and included the commas.
Are two people a group? I wanna turn Batman’s parents’ grave into a portal.
Not sure, but three's a crowd.
I have to agree with @AgentB0ss on this one. For mausoleums, they would follow the same criteria as other gravestones/headstones/etc. in that it should be either architecturally or artistically unique OR be for a notable individual, family, group of people, etc.
When it comes to the "groups" clarification, this is in reference to memorials or monuments in that they're often dedicated to groups of people (i.e. WWII veterans, victims of 9/11, etc.) rather than one specific person or family. [Casey's Family Mausoleum] wouldn't be eligible unless Casey was a person of local notoriety.
Just because it's a mausoleum doesn't mean it's eligible unless there's something there to set it apart as being unique and relevant to your community. Hope that helps!
@NianticCasey They are local notoriety, it is unique and relevant to the community. All priests, friars and other groups similar are usually in them in my area. I will resubmit and reference them accordingly then on the couple that were submitted. Thanks.
I think we can also infer from this clarification by Casey that @AgentB0ss ‘s statement that “three is a crowd” is also correct.
Thank you for the confirmation @NianticCasey
I reviewed this one, and rejected it. I did not find anything notable about the people in this mausoleum, and the submission did not offer any help. It said that they were important, but failed to explain how they were important. Having chosen to be a priest is not an accomplishment on its own. I need to know what they did, specifically, in the Dundalk community outside of just being a priest.
Thank you for also confirming this is Timerciock
You didn't review this one based on your comments. Priests or Friars mausoleums meets the criteria defined by casey. They are the definition of being a significant community figure.
Being a Friar or a Priest isnt a significant figure, you need to be able to explain what they did that was special or significant. You need to provide their history and why they are special.
Such as "Friar AgentB0ss was the founder of the local diocese, worked to help build the all women's shelter in the area the first of its kind in the region to allow battered women a save haven. The Friar will be remember for all their humanitarian deeds during their life 1880-1975." etc you can't just say Important person.
Can you get in trouble in the forums for tricking agents into revealing personal information about themself? AgentB0ss fell for this hook, line, and sinker.
@NianticCasey Gravestones and headstones that are architecturally it artistically interesting are valid now? I thought guidance was only graves of extremely notable people or graves that are a tourist attraction. I recall that the 'art' in a cemetary was eligible if it was not associated with human remains, such as a big Jesus statue in the middle. This reads like any of the really tall gravestones or a praying angel headstone might be eligible.
Would these be good candidates?
@Jasonwhut
Cemeteries or Graveyards
Acceptable: Headstones, statues or memorials dedicated to a historical figure, someone who is significant to the local community, or groups of individuals. For example, a WWII Veteran memorial.
Not acceptable: Signs at the entrance of cemeteries, cemetery directories, other headstones or memorials (regardless of how visually unique or artistic they are), or funeral homes.
I think this may help.
Please look at the date of. d e a t th. on some of those. It is very likely that the relatives would be visiting those ones. I wouldn't nominate. Use commonsense.
Not interested in excuses. If they can't be bothered to do it properly they should be kicked out of Wayfarer.
@Jasonwhut to add more clarification from a previous Ingress AMA
https://ingressama.com/search?q=By+some+estimates%2C
This is taken from Casey's post in this thread:
-----
I have to agree with @AgentB0ss on this one. For mausoleums, they would follow the same criteria as other gravestones/headstones/etc. in that it should be either architecturally or artistically unique OR be for a notable individual, family, group of people, etc.
------------
My post was to point out the contradiction with the Wayfarer Help and the January 2020 update. I'm not advocating artistic gravestones, just pointing out that this comment might be used to justify submissions like the examples I shared.
I think this may help you understand my post.
I know what Wayfarer help says. Casey's statement contradicts it.
A mausoleum is unique architecture. Statues are artistic. A clarification needs to occur. Because both are being rejected for invalid things. Also things are being rejected with ww2 veteran gravesites with a ww2 memorial plaque.
This was just rejected.
How a mausoleum and a ww2 memorial plaque are not meeting requirements is mind blowing. Can niantic issue a alert to wayfarer logins to read current updates in help when updated by niantic?
That is not a WWII memorial plaque. That is a grave marker for an individual that served in WWII. They are not unique since 16 million Americans served in WWII. The internment year is 1989. That is an obvious rejection (almost to the point of wayfarer abuse).
Mausoleums are absolutely not unique architecture - you buy them out of a catalog. Unless an architect designed it and it's a tourist attraction: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin%27s_Mausoleum
Guidance of January 2020 Update.
Cemeteries or Graveyards
Mausoleum per Casey's response is that they need to be architecturally unique to the local community. Well a mausoleum is architecture and visually unique compared to gravestones. There isn't thousands of mausoleums in a cemetery. Everything is bought eventually, even the wood people use to create trail markers. Trail markers aren't unique and accepted. They are typically built by players. Mausoleums aren't built by players.
Memorial plaques, are typically accepted with less valid criteria. Thousands of memorial plaques and benches are accepted without even confirming a person is a war veteran. It's a memorial plaque as the gravestone is used in the supporting photo.... these sites have both a gravestone and a memorial plaque.